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	<title>Comments on: Where Was the ACLU When Green Scare Legislation Passed Congress?</title>
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		<title>By: D.Ayala</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1661</link>
		<dc:creator>D.Ayala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1661</guid>
		<description>the way to get rid of AETA is Al Gore 2008.

http://www.algore-08.com/

Al Gore: &#039;We are facing a massive assault on our liberties&#039;  
Saturday, 04 November 2006  
(The Observer) - Since losing to George Bush in 2000, Al Gore, the former Vice-President, has reinvented himself as America&#039;s voice of reasoned opposition, particularly on global warming, the subject of his internationally acclaimed film An Inconvenient Truth. In this interview, he tells Henry Porter of a crisis of democracy in America. 

Henry Poter: I wonder if you feel that a constitution like the American one makes people more aware of their rights. 

Al Gore: I think it does. Those who wrote the constitution were very steeped in the culture of the printed word and the essays that were written to define the theory of representative democracy. The debates and the Constitutional Convention were all re-capitulated in elaborate written accounts. The debates over each precise word actually did focus public attention then, and continue to influence public attention now, to individual rights. 
 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the way to get rid of AETA is Al Gore 2008.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.algore-08.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.algore-08.com/</a></p>
<p>Al Gore: &#8216;We are facing a massive assault on our liberties&#8217;<br />
Saturday, 04 November 2006<br />
(The Observer) &#8211; Since losing to George Bush in 2000, Al Gore, the former Vice-President, has reinvented himself as America&#8217;s voice of reasoned opposition, particularly on global warming, the subject of his internationally acclaimed film An Inconvenient Truth. In this interview, he tells Henry Porter of a crisis of democracy in America. </p>
<p>Henry Poter: I wonder if you feel that a constitution like the American one makes people more aware of their rights. </p>
<p>Al Gore: I think it does. Those who wrote the constitution were very steeped in the culture of the printed word and the essays that were written to define the theory of representative democracy. The debates and the Constitutional Convention were all re-capitulated in elaborate written accounts. The debates over each precise word actually did focus public attention then, and continue to influence public attention now, to individual rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>First, seriously, the ACLU are wimps and have been for a while . (Where were they on Guantanamo for the first three years? Where were they on rendition for the first three years?) The Center for Constitutional Rights is filing an amicus in the SHAC7 case and will be presenting a facial challenge to the AEPA.  If there is any success there, a facial challenge the the AETA should be right behind it. 

Second, you fail to mention how this all goes back to abortion. You talk to anyone in any of these left-legal organization and you quickly realize you&#039;re not talking about animal enterprises, you&#039;re talking about abortion. I&#039;ve tried pitching Shac7 amicus briefs to organizations and that&#039;s what I hear. The legal-left, including the ACLU, took the position that the Nuremburg Files website (that listed abortion providers&#039; names and addresses and crossed them out when they were kileld) was not protected speech because their views on abortion trumpted their views on the First Amendment. Plain and simple. If the AETA is knocked out, cases like Planned Parenthood fo Columbia/Willamette v. American Coalition of Life Activists are out the door, and the ACLU and most of the legal left won&#039;t let that happen. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, seriously, the ACLU are wimps and have been for a while . (Where were they on Guantanamo for the first three years? Where were they on rendition for the first three years?) The Center for Constitutional Rights is filing an amicus in the SHAC7 case and will be presenting a facial challenge to the AEPA.  If there is any success there, a facial challenge the the AETA should be right behind it. </p>
<p>Second, you fail to mention how this all goes back to abortion. You talk to anyone in any of these left-legal organization and you quickly realize you&#8217;re not talking about animal enterprises, you&#8217;re talking about abortion. I&#8217;ve tried pitching Shac7 amicus briefs to organizations and that&#8217;s what I hear. The legal-left, including the ACLU, took the position that the Nuremburg Files website (that listed abortion providers&#8217; names and addresses and crossed them out when they were kileld) was not protected speech because their views on abortion trumpted their views on the First Amendment. Plain and simple. If the AETA is knocked out, cases like Planned Parenthood fo Columbia/Willamette v. American Coalition of Life Activists are out the door, and the ACLU and most of the legal left won&#8217;t let that happen.</p>
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		<title>By: JC Rawley</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1652</link>
		<dc:creator>JC Rawley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 03:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1652</guid>
		<description>I think y&#039;all are going off on the ACLU when they have no power to push the GOP (or anyone) to do things they do not want to.

The GOP is trying to throw a cat among pigeons with this in another parting shot before they become the minority.

Don&#039;t get so bent out of shape about this. 

This is a tactic from the bad guys, not the good guys switching sides!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think y&#8217;all are going off on the ACLU when they have no power to push the GOP (or anyone) to do things they do not want to.</p>
<p>The GOP is trying to throw a cat among pigeons with this in another parting shot before they become the minority.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get so bent out of shape about this. </p>
<p>This is a tactic from the bad guys, not the good guys switching sides!</p>
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		<title>By: A Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>A Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 03:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>Folks, an important point that seems to have been missed.  The ACLU objected to the ORIGINAL versions of the AETA, HR 4239 and S 1926 (which are almost identical.)  The second letter pertained to the final version, S 3880.  Several major changes were made in between:

- HR 4239 and S 1926 would have made it illegal to &quot;intentionally damage, disrupt, or cause the loss of any property.&quot;  S 3880 makes it illegal to &quot;intentionally damage or cause the loss of any real or personal property.&quot;  See the difference?  The former language could easily be interpreted to include &quot;economic damage&quot; or &quot;economic disruption&quot; as they are later defined in the bill -- including lost profits and increased costs.

- The penalties were rewritten.  &quot;Substantial bodily injury&quot; -- formerly &quot;significant bodily injury&quot; -- results in up to 10 years imprisonment, as opposed to 5.  Economic damage in excess of $1,000,000 results in up to 20 years imprisonment, as opposed to 10.

- The term &quot;economic disruption&quot; was merged with &quot;economic damage.&quot;  Thus the exclusion of &quot;lawful economic disruption&quot; applies to both.  Furthermore, &quot;lawful boycotts&quot; are explicitly excluded.

- Finally, the &quot;Rules of Construction&quot; section was added, which basically says that the law is subject to the First Amendment.

Though the final version is still quite obnoxious, I think it is considerably less so than the original.  &quot;Real or personal property&quot; still sounds a bit ambiguous, but it&#039;s better than the older language.  The intention is clear -- you actually have to do some quantifiable damage (or at least &quot;conspire or attempt to do so&quot;) to violate the law.

So under the AETA as enacted, peaceful assembly isn&#039;t a crime -- merely a source of economic damage, which will result in increased penalties if you are found to be conspiring or attempting to damage real property or threaten people.

So that, I think, is where the ACLU is coming from.  You can all make up your own minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks, an important point that seems to have been missed.  The ACLU objected to the ORIGINAL versions of the AETA, HR 4239 and S 1926 (which are almost identical.)  The second letter pertained to the final version, S 3880.  Several major changes were made in between:</p>
<p>- HR 4239 and S 1926 would have made it illegal to &#8220;intentionally damage, disrupt, or cause the loss of any property.&#8221;  S 3880 makes it illegal to &#8220;intentionally damage or cause the loss of any real or personal property.&#8221;  See the difference?  The former language could easily be interpreted to include &#8220;economic damage&#8221; or &#8220;economic disruption&#8221; as they are later defined in the bill &#8212; including lost profits and increased costs.</p>
<p>- The penalties were rewritten.  &#8220;Substantial bodily injury&#8221; &#8212; formerly &#8220;significant bodily injury&#8221; &#8212; results in up to 10 years imprisonment, as opposed to 5.  Economic damage in excess of $1,000,000 results in up to 20 years imprisonment, as opposed to 10.</p>
<p>- The term &#8220;economic disruption&#8221; was merged with &#8220;economic damage.&#8221;  Thus the exclusion of &#8220;lawful economic disruption&#8221; applies to both.  Furthermore, &#8220;lawful boycotts&#8221; are explicitly excluded.</p>
<p>- Finally, the &#8220;Rules of Construction&#8221; section was added, which basically says that the law is subject to the First Amendment.</p>
<p>Though the final version is still quite obnoxious, I think it is considerably less so than the original.  &#8220;Real or personal property&#8221; still sounds a bit ambiguous, but it&#8217;s better than the older language.  The intention is clear &#8212; you actually have to do some quantifiable damage (or at least &#8220;conspire or attempt to do so&#8221;) to violate the law.</p>
<p>So under the AETA as enacted, peaceful assembly isn&#8217;t a crime &#8212; merely a source of economic damage, which will result in increased penalties if you are found to be conspiring or attempting to damage real property or threaten people.</p>
<p>So that, I think, is where the ACLU is coming from.  You can all make up your own minds.</p>
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		<title>By: jp</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>jp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>i was pretty pissed at ACLU when i read the comments from the post about AETA. i wanted to email one of the higher-ups of the organization and was able to get through to Anthony Romero. i was surprised that he responded to me, but he did. i blogged about the exchange:
http://trailwind.livejournal.com/9965.html

thanks, Will, for all of your work.

jp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i was pretty pissed at ACLU when i read the comments from the post about AETA. i wanted to email one of the higher-ups of the organization and was able to get through to Anthony Romero. i was surprised that he responded to me, but he did. i blogged about the exchange:<br />
<a href="http://trailwind.livejournal.com/9965.html" rel="nofollow">http://trailwind.livejournal.com/9965.html</a></p>
<p>thanks, Will, for all of your work.</p>
<p>jp</p>
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		<title>By: Karin</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1644</link>
		<dc:creator>Karin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1644</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, this blog posting is about the actions of the ACLU and so comments about that are appropriate. Furthermore, a discussion as to whether a politically powerful organization such as the ACLU is worthy of our support is not to &quot;accomplish nothing.&quot;  I very much appreciate your call to action and I agree that it&#039;s critical to do so. But there is no reason that we can&#039;t at the same time think critically about which entities we&#039;ll assist going forward. Thought and action are mutually informative. 

In any case, I am grateful that you posted a link to noaeta.org, and I will definitely check that out. Your suggestions with respect to what we can do are good ones. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, this blog posting is about the actions of the ACLU and so comments about that are appropriate. Furthermore, a discussion as to whether a politically powerful organization such as the ACLU is worthy of our support is not to &#8220;accomplish nothing.&#8221;  I very much appreciate your call to action and I agree that it&#8217;s critical to do so. But there is no reason that we can&#8217;t at the same time think critically about which entities we&#8217;ll assist going forward. Thought and action are mutually informative. </p>
<p>In any case, I am grateful that you posted a link to noaeta.org, and I will definitely check that out. Your suggestions with respect to what we can do are good ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Denise</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1641</link>
		<dc:creator>Denise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1641</guid>
		<description>we can go back and forth what the ACLU did or did not do and accomplish nothing...what&#039;s done is done.

question now is where do we go from here and what CAN WE DO as individuals..forget HSUS,ACLU,ABC,DEF and any other acronym out there..they sold us short so stop SUPPORTING THEM with $$$$$.

according to noAeta a repeal process is being developed most likely to be exercised when the 110th Congress convenes in January.

http://noaeta.org/

We need to mobilize and start a new campaign of contacting newly elected Reps and Senators, including House Speaker Elect Nancy Pelosi,with emails,letters,calls..whatever..and keep doing it non-stop until we make it clear equating law-abiding Americans..fighting an uphill struggle for the welfare and humane treatment of animals in this country...with Arab Terrorists blowing up buildings killing fellow Americans is unacceptable, uconstitutional and undemocratic.

Let them know that we will not sit idle while McCarthyism tactics single out a particular social movement because it is gaining momentum and success
to be reclassified as &quot;terrorists&quot; subject to a different set of laws that are not applicable to other criminal acts of the same nature like the acts
of Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph.









</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we can go back and forth what the ACLU did or did not do and accomplish nothing&#8230;what&#8217;s done is done.</p>
<p>question now is where do we go from here and what CAN WE DO as individuals..forget HSUS,ACLU,ABC,DEF and any other acronym out there..they sold us short so stop SUPPORTING THEM with $$$$$.</p>
<p>according to noAeta a repeal process is being developed most likely to be exercised when the 110th Congress convenes in January.</p>
<p><a href="http://noaeta.org/" rel="nofollow">http://noaeta.org/</a></p>
<p>We need to mobilize and start a new campaign of contacting newly elected Reps and Senators, including House Speaker Elect Nancy Pelosi,with emails,letters,calls..whatever..and keep doing it non-stop until we make it clear equating law-abiding Americans..fighting an uphill struggle for the welfare and humane treatment of animals in this country&#8230;with Arab Terrorists blowing up buildings killing fellow Americans is unacceptable, uconstitutional and undemocratic.</p>
<p>Let them know that we will not sit idle while McCarthyism tactics single out a particular social movement because it is gaining momentum and success<br />
to be reclassified as &#8220;terrorists&#8221; subject to a different set of laws that are not applicable to other criminal acts of the same nature like the acts<br />
of Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph.</p>
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		<title>By: Karin</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1639</link>
		<dc:creator>Karin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1639</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re mincing words when we say that the ACLU did not &quot;support&quot; AETA. They gave their tacit consent, and the consequence is that peddler&#039;s of terrorist rhetoric have used the ACLU&#039;s silence to support their coercive tactics. The ACLU had to have seen this coming. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re mincing words when we say that the ACLU did not &#8220;support&#8221; AETA. They gave their tacit consent, and the consequence is that peddler&#8217;s of terrorist rhetoric have used the ACLU&#8217;s silence to support their coercive tactics. The ACLU had to have seen this coming.</p>
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		<title>By: (A) (E)</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/where-was-the-aclu/165/comment-page-1/#comment-1633</link>
		<dc:creator>(A) (E)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 05:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2006/11/28/where-was-the-aclu-when-green-scare-legislation-passed-congress-3/#comment-1633</guid>
		<description>(\A\C\L\U\) I say people start going after the ACLU, home demos and the like...you won&#039;t support real activists doing real work and you proudly support groups like the KKK by fighting for their right too spout hate speech (and maybe lynch a few folks) and get police protection for it while not even bothering to help out anti racist groups who also want free speech or working to stop the AETA. I say we might as well treat ACLU like HLS and see how much they care about the first amendment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(\A\C\L\U\) I say people start going after the ACLU, home demos and the like&#8230;you won&#8217;t support real activists doing real work and you proudly support groups like the KKK by fighting for their right too spout hate speech (and maybe lynch a few folks) and get police protection for it while not even bothering to help out anti racist groups who also want free speech or working to stop the AETA. I say we might as well treat ACLU like HLS and see how much they care about the first amendment!</p>
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