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	<title>Comments on: Analysis of  AETA as it Passed Senate (S. 3880)</title>
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		<title>By: UK GREEN SCARE - DOES IT START HERE? &#171; Westside Climate Action</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-177835</link>
		<dc:creator>UK GREEN SCARE - DOES IT START HERE? &#171; Westside Climate Action</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-177835</guid>
		<description>[...] of the SHAC7, Eric McDavid and Rod Coronado, as well as recent repressive legislation such as the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, which attempts to turn activists into [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the SHAC7, Eric McDavid and Rod Coronado, as well as recent repressive legislation such as the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, which attempts to turn activists into [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Elisabeth Colville</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-128400</link>
		<dc:creator>Elisabeth Colville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-128400</guid>
		<description>Can anyone help the 7 animal rights political prisoners rotting in federal prisons charged under the unconstitutional AETA now? The web site is www.shac7.com
We need good constitutional attorneys to challenge this. Where are they?
I feel ashamed to be an American now. First the Patriot Act now this.

Do you have the voting record of the senators and reps on this law?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone help the 7 animal rights political prisoners rotting in federal prisons charged under the unconstitutional AETA now? The web site is <a href="http://www.shac7.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.shac7.com</a><br />
We need good constitutional attorneys to challenge this. Where are they?<br />
I feel ashamed to be an American now. First the Patriot Act now this.</p>
<p>Do you have the voting record of the senators and reps on this law?</p>
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		<title>By: kilthistle</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1321</link>
		<dc:creator>kilthistle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1321</guid>
		<description>Will,
Thanks for all this information.  Unfortunately, I only discovered this outrage today.  Do you know why the word &quot;legal&quot; was not added to the definition of &quot;Animal Enterprise&quot; like the ACLU requested?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,<br />
Thanks for all this information.  Unfortunately, I only discovered this outrage today.  Do you know why the word &#8220;legal&#8221; was not added to the definition of &#8220;Animal Enterprise&#8221; like the ACLU requested?</p>
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		<title>By: Rockney Shepheard</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator>Rockney Shepheard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1296</guid>
		<description>Will,
I imagine you&#039;re working feverishly on an article about the passage of AETA yesterday. Such a travesty that it passed. Now we have to work for repeal which will be even more challenging.
Do you know how I can get video or audio media file of the house floor procedure on AETA yesterday? I want to post it on the site.
Thanks,
Rocky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,<br />
I imagine you&#8217;re working feverishly on an article about the passage of AETA yesterday. Such a travesty that it passed. Now we have to work for repeal which will be even more challenging.<br />
Do you know how I can get video or audio media file of the house floor procedure on AETA yesterday? I want to post it on the site.<br />
Thanks,<br />
Rocky</p>
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		<title>By: Suprokid</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1240</link>
		<dc:creator>Suprokid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1240</guid>
		<description>P.S.  One can also violate the statute by conspiring to damage or cause the loss of personal or real property or to threaten somebody with bodily harm (agreeing to act with that purpose and taking some act towards that goal), which is why there is a punishment for a violation that does not result in &quot;economic damage,&quot; e.g., a failed conspiracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  One can also violate the statute by conspiring to damage or cause the loss of personal or real property or to threaten somebody with bodily harm (agreeing to act with that purpose and taking some act towards that goal), which is why there is a punishment for a violation that does not result in &#8220;economic damage,&#8221; e.g., a failed conspiracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Suprokid</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1235</link>
		<dc:creator>Suprokid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1235</guid>
		<description>Disclaimers:  I am a lawyer working in criminal law for about 7 years and have been a vegan for about 12 years.

In order to be guilty of the crime defined in the amended senate version, a person must damage or cause the loss of real or personal property or threaten somebody with bodily harm, with the intent of interfering with the operations of an animal enterprise.  (The House version is not as specific, referring only to &quot;property.&quot;)  In legalese, the actus reus (the guilty act) of the crime is damaging or causing the loss of property or threatening to harm someone.  The punishment section, where the issue of &quot;economic damage&quot; comes up, is irrelevant unless you first commit the crime, i.e., damage property or threaten somebody.  

The statute defines &quot;economic damage&quot; in the punishment section as including loss of profits, which by negative implication means that damaging or causing the loss of real or personal property (which is the criminal activity) is not merely causing a loss of profits- otherwise the statute would say &quot;anyone who causes economic damage to an animal enterprise is guilty of a crime.&quot;  In other words, the actus reus would be &quot;causing economic harm,&quot; which it is not.  Besides, lost profits (i.e., what they think the company would have made if its property hadn&#039;t been damaged) cannot be personal property or property in the general sense because you cannot own something that exists only in theory (and lost profits obviously aren&#039;t land-real property).  In order to commit the crime, one has to do something active like break a door, set the animals free from a fur farm, burn a lab&#039;s records, etc.  (And people can nonetheless debate whether that is a legitimate way to work for animal rights.)

I don&#039;t think that this amended statute expands the existing crime, in fact, it seems to me it makes it more clear that activities like protesting, boycotting, etc., that do not involve breaking something or threatening to hurt somebody, are not criminalized by the statute.  What it does do is make the punishments harsher for people who do what is already illegal.  While this is evidence of Congress giving a gift to big business most likely in return for campaign donations, I don&#039;t see the AETA (as amended in the senate version) as the attack on the First Amendment that people have made it out to be.  I think that by sounding the alarm bells in the manner I have witnessed, animal rights organizations might actually be making things worse in terms of &quot;chilling&quot; people&#039;s willingness to speak out for animals.  

Has the &quot;danger&quot; of eco- and animal rights- terrorism been overblown by the Bush Admin and the media and could the AETA been seen as Congress and big business acting to further nip away at the environmental and animal rights movements- sure.  Is the FBI going to be arresting people who peacefully picket in front of a KFC and charging them with terrorism- not under this statute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclaimers:  I am a lawyer working in criminal law for about 7 years and have been a vegan for about 12 years.</p>
<p>In order to be guilty of the crime defined in the amended senate version, a person must damage or cause the loss of real or personal property or threaten somebody with bodily harm, with the intent of interfering with the operations of an animal enterprise.  (The House version is not as specific, referring only to &#8220;property.&#8221;)  In legalese, the actus reus (the guilty act) of the crime is damaging or causing the loss of property or threatening to harm someone.  The punishment section, where the issue of &#8220;economic damage&#8221; comes up, is irrelevant unless you first commit the crime, i.e., damage property or threaten somebody.  </p>
<p>The statute defines &#8220;economic damage&#8221; in the punishment section as including loss of profits, which by negative implication means that damaging or causing the loss of real or personal property (which is the criminal activity) is not merely causing a loss of profits- otherwise the statute would say &#8220;anyone who causes economic damage to an animal enterprise is guilty of a crime.&#8221;  In other words, the actus reus would be &#8220;causing economic harm,&#8221; which it is not.  Besides, lost profits (i.e., what they think the company would have made if its property hadn&#8217;t been damaged) cannot be personal property or property in the general sense because you cannot own something that exists only in theory (and lost profits obviously aren&#8217;t land-real property).  In order to commit the crime, one has to do something active like break a door, set the animals free from a fur farm, burn a lab&#8217;s records, etc.  (And people can nonetheless debate whether that is a legitimate way to work for animal rights.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that this amended statute expands the existing crime, in fact, it seems to me it makes it more clear that activities like protesting, boycotting, etc., that do not involve breaking something or threatening to hurt somebody, are not criminalized by the statute.  What it does do is make the punishments harsher for people who do what is already illegal.  While this is evidence of Congress giving a gift to big business most likely in return for campaign donations, I don&#8217;t see the AETA (as amended in the senate version) as the attack on the First Amendment that people have made it out to be.  I think that by sounding the alarm bells in the manner I have witnessed, animal rights organizations might actually be making things worse in terms of &#8220;chilling&#8221; people&#8217;s willingness to speak out for animals.  </p>
<p>Has the &#8220;danger&#8221; of eco- and animal rights- terrorism been overblown by the Bush Admin and the media and could the AETA been seen as Congress and big business acting to further nip away at the environmental and animal rights movements- sure.  Is the FBI going to be arresting people who peacefully picket in front of a KFC and charging them with terrorism- not under this statute.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1176</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1176</guid>
		<description>Oh, I also meant to add that I am a member of PETA and since we&#039;re not for profit, we cannot buy anyone, unfortunately, we are not lobbyists.  We are lying low because people who don&#039;t know what really goes on behind the scenes (besides the protesting with signs and Public Service Announcements) are peaceful negotiations with CEOs of large corporations, politely urging them to stop using and/or abusing animals.  The general public thinks we&#039;re radical and the ones who burn labs, let animals out of labs and fur farms, etc. like the more extreme groups.  We don&#039;t want negative publicity, neither does the Humane Society of the United States.  I am wondering, tho, why the ACLU isn&#039;t ALLLLLLLL over this one?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I also meant to add that I am a member of PETA and since we&#8217;re not for profit, we cannot buy anyone, unfortunately, we are not lobbyists.  We are lying low because people who don&#8217;t know what really goes on behind the scenes (besides the protesting with signs and Public Service Announcements) are peaceful negotiations with CEOs of large corporations, politely urging them to stop using and/or abusing animals.  The general public thinks we&#8217;re radical and the ones who burn labs, let animals out of labs and fur farms, etc. like the more extreme groups.  We don&#8217;t want negative publicity, neither does the Humane Society of the United States.  I am wondering, tho, why the ACLU isn&#8217;t ALLLLLLLL over this one?</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1172</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1172</guid>
		<description>What else can I say?  It&#039;s at best unconstitutional and at worst picking one target - animal welfare and rights.  I don&#039;t remember any of us killing people on hit lists along with bombing clinics.  There are some animal extremist groups (we know who they are) that made this bill possible.  Peaceful protesting resulting in a boycott (&quot;loss of profit&quot;, &quot;economic damage&quot;), yada yada yada is called effective activism. Are we just standing there with signs for the fun of it getting some sun??? Nothing motivates business (or most politicians) like money.  Pro life?  Yeah, right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What else can I say?  It&#8217;s at best unconstitutional and at worst picking one target &#8211; animal welfare and rights.  I don&#8217;t remember any of us killing people on hit lists along with bombing clinics.  There are some animal extremist groups (we know who they are) that made this bill possible.  Peaceful protesting resulting in a boycott (&#8220;loss of profit&#8221;, &#8220;economic damage&#8221;), yada yada yada is called effective activism. Are we just standing there with signs for the fun of it getting some sun??? Nothing motivates business (or most politicians) like money.  Pro life?  Yeah, right.</p>
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		<title>By: Tahler</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1162</link>
		<dc:creator>Tahler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1162</guid>
		<description>Companies that abuse animals—including the meat, fur, circus, and vivisection industries—have convinced a small group of politicians to introduce a bill called the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (AETA). If passed, this bill would allow the government to charge animal rights activists with massive fines and jail time for using nonviolent tactics such as civil disobedience, whistle-blowing, and undercover investigations. AETA already passed in the Senate and may be voted on in the House as soon as Monday, November 13. Animals need your help—please contact your representative today and tell him or her to vote “No” on this unconstitutional bill now.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Companies that abuse animals—including the meat, fur, circus, and vivisection industries—have convinced a small group of politicians to introduce a bill called the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (AETA). If passed, this bill would allow the government to charge animal rights activists with massive fines and jail time for using nonviolent tactics such as civil disobedience, whistle-blowing, and undercover investigations. AETA already passed in the Senate and may be voted on in the House as soon as Monday, November 13. Animals need your help—please contact your representative today and tell him or her to vote “No” on this unconstitutional bill now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lissa</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>Lissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/s3880-analysis/#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>I think the government officials that are &quot;for the welfare&quot; of America and it&#039;s inhabitants need to step back and look at this horrible thing again.  What&#039;s wrong--are they afraid of losing a vote or two from the money that supports them if they don&#039;t pass this sickening bill??  It&#039;s becoming apparent to me that saying you live in the FREE country of America is going to no longer be true.  It&#039;s sad when you can&#039;t protect something as loving and innocent as a dog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the government officials that are &#8220;for the welfare&#8221; of America and it&#8217;s inhabitants need to step back and look at this horrible thing again.  What&#8217;s wrong&#8211;are they afraid of losing a vote or two from the money that supports them if they don&#8217;t pass this sickening bill??  It&#8217;s becoming apparent to me that saying you live in the FREE country of America is going to no longer be true.  It&#8217;s sad when you can&#8217;t protect something as loving and innocent as a dog.</p>
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