Comments on: Great New Book on Rod Coronado and the Animal Liberation Front–Review it! http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/ "Eco-terrorism," environmental activism and animal rights activism Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:26:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: greentangle http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-234442 greentangle Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:50:56 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-234442 I'm happy I could astound you, L. I, on the other hand, am never at all surprised when I see folks like yourself worried about public relations as if it's going to make any difference to the existence of fur farms or people eating animals. Despite your statement of your opinion as fact, I and many other people think there's a huge difference between wearing fur and eating an animal, just as there can be huge differences within each behavior depending on circumstances. <br><br>It would be nice if you could keep my statement in the context of the conversation with Joe, but even if you did we'd probably still disagree. Incidentally, my review of the book was the first one on Amazon and you can read a different version of it in which I write that arson is not something I'd personally be comfortable doing by clicking on the link for this post.<br><br>Should there be a comma after THINK or is that a new slogan of the anti-animal folks? Too bad Up With People was already taken. I'm happy I could astound you, L. I, on the other hand, am never at all surprised when I see folks like yourself worried about public relations as if it's going to make any difference to the existence of fur farms or people eating animals. Despite your statement of your opinion as fact, I and many other people think there's a huge difference between wearing fur and eating an animal, just as there can be huge differences within each behavior depending on circumstances.

It would be nice if you could keep my statement in the context of the conversation with Joe, but even if you did we'd probably still disagree. Incidentally, my review of the book was the first one on Amazon and you can read a different version of it in which I write that arson is not something I'd personally be comfortable doing by clicking on the link for this post.

Should there be a comma after THINK or is that a new slogan of the anti-animal folks? Too bad Up With People was already taken.

]]> By: Tracy Habenicht http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-228291 Tracy Habenicht Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:06:40 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-228291 Will, thanks again for recommending this book. I loved it! Here's my review: http://diggingthroughthedirt.blogspot.com/2009/09/operation-bite-back-must-read-for-ar.html Will, thanks again for recommending this book. I loved it!
Here’s my review:
http://diggingthroughthedirt.blogspot.com/2009/09/operation-bite-back-must-read-for-ar.html

]]> By: Lin http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227748 Lin Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:21:56 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227748 We've really missed you Joe. If the FBI is going to send you out on these prolonged outings, you should at least be able to put in a request for an Iphone or a blackberry...or some other device that would let you continue to post here and keep tabs on all us "eco terrorists". The irony is that there's another animal rights related blog that I check once or twice a day, and the obvious agent over there claims that he ALSO works in "wildlife management"....Is that the standard story they give you guys in training? I mean seriously, he's a carbon copy of you, but with a different name. Maybe it's a coincidence, who knows? We’ve really missed you Joe. If the FBI is going to send you out on these prolonged outings, you should at least be able to put in a request for an Iphone or a blackberry…or some other device that would let you continue to post here and keep tabs on all us “eco terrorists”.
The irony is that there’s another animal rights related blog that I check once or twice a day, and the obvious agent over there claims that he ALSO works in “wildlife management”….Is that the standard story they give you guys in training? I mean seriously, he’s a carbon copy of you, but with a different name. Maybe it’s a coincidence, who knows?

]]> By: Joe http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227724 Joe Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:11:12 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227724 I am still on the line doing something none of you is doing....savingthe environment! GW, I will be home sometime this week maybe you could explain those very intellectual words (sick,stupid,fucking and whore) to me? I looked up asshole but all I found was a photo of you. I am still on the line doing something none of you is doing….savingthe environment! GW, I will be home sometime this week maybe you could explain those very intellectual words (sick,stupid,fucking and whore) to me? I looked up asshole but all I found was a photo of you.

]]> By: GW http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227623 GW Sun, 06 Sep 2009 02:53:14 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227623 Maybe if Joe knew what anal electrocution entailed he might have some compassion; then again, Joe isn't very smart so... Think Joe what it would be like to have an electric prod inserted into your anus. Then an electrode attached to your mouth and the power turned on. You sick stupid fucking whore. Maybe if Joe knew what anal electrocution entailed he might have some compassion; then again, Joe isn’t very smart so…

Think Joe what it would be like to have an electric prod inserted into your anus. Then an electrode attached to your mouth and the power turned on.

You sick stupid fucking whore.

]]> By: Lin http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227483 Lin Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:14:49 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227483 L, "Are you that naive to believe if you shut down one fur farm that the business will not just move to another location?" You successfully missed the entire point of my post. I was not talking about closing down ONE fur farm, which obviously would have hardly any effect on the industry. I was responding to your question about why someone would target a fur farmer versus "average guy on the street" type meat eaters...the idea being that since both of them are responsible for the exploitation and killing of animals that they both would warrant the same tactics. My point was that the ENTIRE mink industry in the US relies on the 247 people who raise mink for a living, and that 247 is not really that large of a number if there were a group of people who were inclined to "get their hands dirty", so to speak. My point, then, was to say that if your concern was the consumption of meat, and you had limited resources and limited man power (or woman power for that matter) the use of force would more effective if you were to use it against the owners of a factory farm or slaughterhouse than to their millions of individual customers. At the end of the day, I don't see this as an either/or type situation. Education and vegan outreach are monumentally important, and OF COURSE it is important to use that outreach to lower (and eventually end) the general populations demand for products made from the exploitation of animals. At the same time, there are people who do not respond to reason, and no mater how many conversations we have with them, or pamphlets we give them, or how many time we show them "Earthlings", they are STILL going to see animals as property. and they are still going to raise animals to kill and eat. And they are still going to strap animals to tables and cut them open without anesthesia and implant electrodes in their brains. Some people desire only money and power. The only way to stop them is to attack their ability to make a profit from the suffering of animals, and if power and force are the only things they respect, I have no sympathy for them when they wind up on the receiving end of what they dish out every day. This is getting a bit long, so I'm going to end it here. The truth is that no one here is going to change anyone's mind about what they feel are "acceptable" tactics. I just wish that we as a movement would spend more of our energy attacking (the word "attacking" is not used in a violent sense here...I mean everything from leafleting to civil disobedience to militant direct action) the people who are out there killing animals and a little less time and energy attacking each other. L,
“Are you that naive to believe if you shut down one fur farm that the business will not just move to another location?”
You successfully missed the entire point of my post. I was not talking about closing down ONE fur farm, which obviously would have hardly any effect on the industry. I was responding to your question about why someone would target a fur farmer versus “average guy on the street” type meat eaters…the idea being that since both of them are responsible for the exploitation and killing of animals that they both would warrant the same tactics.
My point was that the ENTIRE mink industry in the US relies on the 247 people who raise mink for a living, and that 247 is not really that large of a number if there were a group of people who were inclined to “get their hands dirty”, so to speak.
My point, then, was to say that if your concern was the consumption of meat, and you had limited resources and limited man power (or woman power for that matter) the use of force would more effective if you were to use it against the owners of a factory farm or slaughterhouse than to their millions of individual customers.
At the end of the day, I don’t see this as an either/or type situation. Education and vegan outreach are monumentally important, and OF COURSE it is important to use that outreach to lower (and eventually end) the general populations demand for products made from the exploitation of animals. At the same time, there are people who do not respond to reason, and no mater how many conversations we have with them, or pamphlets we give them, or how many time we show them “Earthlings”, they are STILL going to see animals as property. and they are still going to raise animals to kill and eat. And they are still going to strap animals to tables and cut them open without anesthesia and implant electrodes in their brains.
Some people desire only money and power. The only way to stop them is to attack their ability to make a profit from the suffering of animals, and if power and force are the only things they respect, I have no sympathy for them when they wind up on the receiving end of what they dish out every day.
This is getting a bit long, so I’m going to end it here. The truth is that no one here is going to change anyone’s mind about what they feel are “acceptable” tactics. I just wish that we as a movement would spend more of our energy attacking (the word “attacking” is not used in a violent sense here…I mean everything from leafleting to civil disobedience to militant direct action) the people who are out there killing animals and a little less time and energy attacking each other.

]]> By: L http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227353 L Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:57:27 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227353 "According to the Department of Agriculture, in 2008 there were 247 mink farms in the US. That’s not a very large number. Do what it takes to convince 247 people that they need to seek out a new way to make a living and it’s done." Terrorizing someone is not going to convince them. Are you that naive to believe if you shut down one fur farm that the business will not just move to another location? My understanding is that, although fur has very slightly declined over the last couple of years, it is still well above average because of record breaking profits in '07. And I disagree. You put a dent in animal exploitation by attacking demand for such exploitation, not terrorizing the "exploiters" (anyone who consumes animals). “According to the Department of Agriculture, in 2008 there were 247 mink farms in the US. That’s not a very large number. Do what it takes to convince 247 people that they need to seek out a new way to make a living and it’s done.”

Terrorizing someone is not going to convince them. Are you that naive to believe if you shut down one fur farm that the business will not just move to another location? My understanding is that, although fur has very slightly declined over the last couple of years, it is still well above average because of record breaking profits in ’07.

And I disagree. You put a dent in animal exploitation by attacking demand for such exploitation, not terrorizing the “exploiters” (anyone who consumes animals).

]]> By: Lin http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227311 Lin Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:07:59 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227311 TO L: "I’m concerned with comments like “every fur farmer deserves to be terrorized”. The ignorance expressed therein is astounding. If we’re going to “terrorize” fur farmers why not “terrorize” everyone who eats animals (99 percent of the population)? Because really, what’s the moral difference between a fur farmer and farmer who raises and kills animals for food or a person who eats animals because they like the taste? There is no significant difference. People really need to check themselves here." When you say that there is no significant difference between a fur farmer and someone who eats meet I think that you're missing one major difference. The difference is the amount of force needed to stop them versus what you would gain from said force. According to the Department of Agriculture, in 2008 there were 247 mink farms in the US. That's not a very large number. Do what it takes to convince 247 people that they need to seek out a new way to make a living and it's done. Regardless of whether they "see the error of their ways" or they think they were "put out of business by those damn eco-terrorists", it doesn't matter. 247 people walk away from their line of work and you've DESTROYED the fur industry in North America. On the other side, convince 247 people to give up meat and you haven't even made the slightest dent in the meat industry. It's a matter of leverage. If you WERE going to use force against the meat industry, you'd have to be a moron to think that the most effective targets would be average meat eating people. The worth while targets would be on the supply end, not on the demand end....the people responsible for raising and killing animals for food. TO L:
“I’m concerned with comments like “every fur farmer deserves to be terrorized”. The ignorance expressed therein is astounding. If we’re going to “terrorize” fur farmers why not “terrorize” everyone who eats animals (99 percent of the population)? Because really, what’s the moral difference between a fur farmer and farmer who raises and kills animals for food or a person who eats animals because they like the taste? There is no significant difference. People really need to check themselves here.”
When you say that there is no significant difference between a fur farmer and someone who eats meet I think that you’re missing one major difference. The difference is the amount of force needed to stop them versus what you would gain from said force.
According to the Department of Agriculture, in 2008 there were 247 mink farms in the US. That’s not a very large number. Do what it takes to convince 247 people that they need to seek out a new way to make a living and it’s done. Regardless of whether they “see the error of their ways” or they think they were “put out of business by those damn eco-terrorists”, it doesn’t matter. 247 people walk away from their line of work and you’ve DESTROYED the fur industry in North America.
On the other side, convince 247 people to give up meat and you haven’t even made the slightest dent in the meat industry. It’s a matter of leverage. If you WERE going to use force against the meat industry, you’d have to be a moron to think that the most effective targets would be average meat eating people. The worth while targets would be on the supply end, not on the demand end….the people responsible for raising and killing animals for food.

]]> By: greentangle http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227301 greentangle Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:51:33 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227301 L, the most important difference is right there in your post--99.9 percent vs a small minority. Which has a chance of being eliminated and which has absolutely no chance of being eliminated? I also think there's a big difference between people who mindlessly do what they were trained as children to consider normal every day behavior and people who choose to wear fur to show off their fashion sense and financial status. You don't agree? That's fine, I have no interest in debating and feel no need to prove I'm right. L, the most important difference is right there in your post–99.9 percent vs a small minority. Which has a chance of being eliminated and which has absolutely no chance of being eliminated? I also think there’s a big difference between people who mindlessly do what they were trained as children to consider normal every day behavior and people who choose to wear fur to show off their fashion sense and financial status. You don’t agree? That’s fine, I have no interest in debating and feel no need to prove I’m right.

]]> By: Judith http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/great-new-book-on-rod-coronado-and-the-animal-liberation-front-review-it/2204/#comment-227250 Judith Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:40:11 +0000 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/?p=2204#comment-227250 I just received the book from Amazon. Haven't had time to start the book but can hardly wait. I think next time I'll go to a book store. I had no idea that Amazon sold, Foie Gras. We are not terrorists!!! We are Freedom Fighters, fighting for the freedom of the innocent and voiceless sentient beings. We're suppose to be their caretakers, not their executioners..Watch what happens in a slaughterhouse, the humans are terrorizing the animals, murdering them. Anyone who disagrees with this is a bully.. Bullies don't belong on this earth. Whatever it takes..... I just received the book from Amazon. Haven’t had time to start the book but can hardly wait. I think next time I’ll go to a book store. I had no idea that Amazon sold, Foie Gras.
We are not terrorists!!! We are Freedom Fighters, fighting for the freedom of the innocent and voiceless sentient beings.
We’re suppose to be their caretakers, not their executioners..Watch what happens in a slaughterhouse, the humans are terrorizing the animals, murdering them. Anyone who disagrees with this is a bully.. Bullies don’t belong on this earth.
Whatever it takes…..

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