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	<title>Comments on: Making Friends</title>
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	<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/</link>
	<description>Reporting on “Eco-Terrorism” Witch Hunts, Blacklists and the Green Scare</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Colleen Chaos</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-81419</link>
		<dc:creator>Colleen Chaos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-81419</guid>
		<description>Sicko is a great movie. Everyone should take time and watch it. Micheal Moore is doing great things. Back off PETA. It's not like he's prancing around in a mink coat. 
Want people to help stop AETA, stop picking on them. Putting your foot in your mouth isn't helping the cause PETA. “Although we think that your film could actually help reform America’s sorely inadequate health care system, there’s an elephant in the room, and it is you.” WTF, this is out of the mouth of a grown woman!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sicko is a great movie. Everyone should take time and watch it. Micheal Moore is doing great things. Back off PETA. It&#8217;s not like he&#8217;s prancing around in a mink coat.<br />
Want people to help stop AETA, stop picking on them. Putting your foot in your mouth isn&#8217;t helping the cause PETA. “Although we think that your film could actually help reform America’s sorely inadequate health care system, there’s an elephant in the room, and it is you.” WTF, this is out of the mouth of a grown woman!</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-80998</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 22:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-80998</guid>
		<description>I understand that Michael Moore isn't going to "cry himself to sleep" or that he "can handle" the "dietary advice," but what Ms. Newkirk did in offering her diet wisdom to Moore was so much more than that.

If she had suggested he use his skills to support vegetarianism, if she had berated him for not using his skills to help promote the ethical treatment of animals, than that would have been appropriate. But instead, she chose to, in essence, say "you may be successful, but YOU'RE FAT. Lose weight. Here's how."

As a fat person, I cringe at this. No, not because my tender psyche has flashed back to this-one-time-in-grade-school-I-was-called-fat-too, but because yet ANOTHER person (Ms, Newkirk) has made a public statement that it doesn't really matter WHAT a person contributes to society, if that person is fat, than the contribution is meaningless.

How would it be received if a public statement was made that the efforts of PETA would be better received if she gained a few pounds, minimized her facial lines, and augmented her breasts? Perhaps if the statement included information an organic face peel and a vegetarian plastic surgeon, it would then be OK?

Michael Moore can "handle" the letter, I'm sure. But the message now associated with PETA's president is "fat people aren't welcome here."

And after 15 years of support (both financial and in my lifestyle), I got the message, loud and clear. I may be a vegetarian who has donated literally hundreds if not thousands of dollars to PETA, but, hey, I'm still fat. And to Newkirk, that's all that matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that Michael Moore isn&#8217;t going to &#8220;cry himself to sleep&#8221; or that he &#8220;can handle&#8221; the &#8220;dietary advice,&#8221; but what Ms. Newkirk did in offering her diet wisdom to Moore was so much more than that.</p>
<p>If she had suggested he use his skills to support vegetarianism, if she had berated him for not using his skills to help promote the ethical treatment of animals, than that would have been appropriate. But instead, she chose to, in essence, say &#8220;you may be successful, but YOU&#8217;RE FAT. Lose weight. Here&#8217;s how.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a fat person, I cringe at this. No, not because my tender psyche has flashed back to this-one-time-in-grade-school-I-was-called-fat-too, but because yet ANOTHER person (Ms, Newkirk) has made a public statement that it doesn&#8217;t really matter WHAT a person contributes to society, if that person is fat, than the contribution is meaningless.</p>
<p>How would it be received if a public statement was made that the efforts of PETA would be better received if she gained a few pounds, minimized her facial lines, and augmented her breasts? Perhaps if the statement included information an organic face peel and a vegetarian plastic surgeon, it would then be OK?</p>
<p>Michael Moore can &#8220;handle&#8221; the letter, I&#8217;m sure. But the message now associated with PETA&#8217;s president is &#8220;fat people aren&#8217;t welcome here.&#8221;</p>
<p>And after 15 years of support (both financial and in my lifestyle), I got the message, loud and clear. I may be a vegetarian who has donated literally hundreds if not thousands of dollars to PETA, but, hey, I&#8217;m still fat. And to Newkirk, that&#8217;s all that matters.</p>
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		<title>By: vegan</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-76807</link>
		<dc:creator>vegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-76807</guid>
		<description>silly, as usual.

drawing attention to peta, yes

getting mm to embrace em and make a peta movie, i can think of fewer ways of working to achieve that goal

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>silly, as usual.</p>
<p>drawing attention to peta, yes</p>
<p>getting mm to embrace em and make a peta movie, i can think of fewer ways of working to achieve that goal</p>
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		<title>By: belphegor1527</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-76666</link>
		<dc:creator>belphegor1527</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-76666</guid>
		<description>Both PETA and the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine have lengthy histories of such bizarre actions and statements that you really have to wonder what their motives are.  If the anti-animal rights crowd wanted to create a group that would make the animal rights movement look like a bunch of kooks I don't think they could do a better job than 'create' a Newkirk or Vlasak.

They push the cause of animal rights back years with their nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both PETA and the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine have lengthy histories of such bizarre actions and statements that you really have to wonder what their motives are.  If the anti-animal rights crowd wanted to create a group that would make the animal rights movement look like a bunch of kooks I don&#8217;t think they could do a better job than &#8216;create&#8217; a Newkirk or Vlasak.</p>
<p>They push the cause of animal rights back years with their nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-76536</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-76536</guid>
		<description>Yeah, we can all agree that Michael Moore has acted like a jerk, and PETA has good intentions, and if the 2 of them ever throw down, I'll be on PETA's side. 

But looking at this issue as a member of John Q. Public, PETA's really not helping our cause here.  No one knows about Moore's past relationship with animal rights (I'm heavily involved with the movement, and I had no idea), and this whole thing only makes PETA look bad.  

The way to win over the hearts of the liberals is not by a seemingly baseless, random, and extremely insensitive attack on the man who brought us Fahrenheit 911.

I love so many things that PETA has done, but they certainly don't make life easier for those of us in the trenches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, we can all agree that Michael Moore has acted like a jerk, and PETA has good intentions, and if the 2 of them ever throw down, I&#8217;ll be on PETA&#8217;s side. </p>
<p>But looking at this issue as a member of John Q. Public, PETA&#8217;s really not helping our cause here.  No one knows about Moore&#8217;s past relationship with animal rights (I&#8217;m heavily involved with the movement, and I had no idea), and this whole thing only makes PETA look bad.  </p>
<p>The way to win over the hearts of the liberals is not by a seemingly baseless, random, and extremely insensitive attack on the man who brought us Fahrenheit 911.</p>
<p>I love so many things that PETA has done, but they certainly don&#8217;t make life easier for those of us in the trenches.</p>
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		<title>By: elie</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-75077</link>
		<dc:creator>elie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-75077</guid>
		<description>I know people from In Defense of Animals who have tried very politely to speak with MM about animal issues - he will have none of it.  He's an avowed speciesist who apparently can't wait to stuff the next tortured animal into his mouth.  So yeah, he should be called on his "sicko" values.  The nice approach hasn't really worked with someone who's so far gone.  This is from the PETA blog:

http://blog.peta.org/archives/2007/06/more_on_michael.php
"I should probably provide a little context to our own relationship with Michael Moore—which goes back a long way. We've written to him several times over the years, starting back in the days of Roger &#38; Me with ever-so-polite appeals to embrace animal rights. We don't hold it against him, but the only response we ever got from him was when his people showed up outside the PETA building with a donkey, two goats, two sheep, a rabbit, a chicken, three dogs, a fish in a bowl(!), a guinea pig, two gerbils, and a rat in a cage "wearing" offensive signs, like “You are wasting your lives.” He arranged to haul these animals out on a hot day to taunt hard-working people just to get a cheap laugh for his show. In addition to that little stunt, whose real victims didn’t even have the luxury of understanding what was happening to them, Michael Moore has made comments throughout his career glorifying meat-eating and hunting, and mocking people who care about animals." </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know people from In Defense of Animals who have tried very politely to speak with MM about animal issues - he will have none of it.  He&#8217;s an avowed speciesist who apparently can&#8217;t wait to stuff the next tortured animal into his mouth.  So yeah, he should be called on his &#8220;sicko&#8221; values.  The nice approach hasn&#8217;t really worked with someone who&#8217;s so far gone.  This is from the PETA blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.peta.org/archives/2007/06/more_on_michael.php" rel="nofollow">http://blog.peta.org/archives/2007/06/more_on_michael.php</a><br />
&#8220;I should probably provide a little context to our own relationship with Michael Moore—which goes back a long way. We&#8217;ve written to him several times over the years, starting back in the days of Roger &amp; Me with ever-so-polite appeals to embrace animal rights. We don&#8217;t hold it against him, but the only response we ever got from him was when his people showed up outside the PETA building with a donkey, two goats, two sheep, a rabbit, a chicken, three dogs, a fish in a bowl(!), a guinea pig, two gerbils, and a rat in a cage &#8220;wearing&#8221; offensive signs, like “You are wasting your lives.” He arranged to haul these animals out on a hot day to taunt hard-working people just to get a cheap laugh for his show. In addition to that little stunt, whose real victims didn’t even have the luxury of understanding what was happening to them, Michael Moore has made comments throughout his career glorifying meat-eating and hunting, and mocking people who care about animals.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: BRobinson</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74931</link>
		<dc:creator>BRobinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74931</guid>
		<description>PETA has long sought out controversy for the sake of gaining media coverage for animal related issues.  Such controversial tactics have a long history that, in the US, go back to the early days of the founding of the ASPCA.  Such tactics have produced success many times in the past, and success I feel outweighs any any risk of the making the movement a 'political leper.'  Besides, as Elaine Vigneault has pointed out above, it is doubtful that the movement is solely responsible for such a 'leper' status. .

That said, I should hope that if the writers for this blog wish to engage in tactical critique, they would take a more considered approach than merely decrying PETA for failing to be politically tactful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PETA has long sought out controversy for the sake of gaining media coverage for animal related issues.  Such controversial tactics have a long history that, in the US, go back to the early days of the founding of the ASPCA.  Such tactics have produced success many times in the past, and success I feel outweighs any any risk of the making the movement a &#8216;political leper.&#8217;  Besides, as Elaine Vigneault has pointed out above, it is doubtful that the movement is solely responsible for such a &#8216;leper&#8217; status. .</p>
<p>That said, I should hope that if the writers for this blog wish to engage in tactical critique, they would take a more considered approach than merely decrying PETA for failing to be politically tactful.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74859</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74859</guid>
		<description>For what it's worth, another letter that PETA sent to Michael Moore a few years ago: http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20040315/022005.html </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, another letter that PETA sent to Michael Moore a few years ago: <a href="http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20040315/022005.html" rel="nofollow">http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20040315/022005.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: kelly g.</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74845</link>
		<dc:creator>kelly g.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74845</guid>
		<description>You know, PETA's letter to Moore pissed me off too, as do all their sexist, sizeist, racist and otherwise insensitive stunts.  But people have to put their critical thinking caps on.  Just as ELF doesn't represent ALL environmentalists, and Al Sharpton doesn't speak for ALL African-Americans, nor are PETA and Newkirk the mouthpieces for the AR movement.  Hell, some of their policies aren't even abolitionist, but welfarist!  

Yeah, PETA doesn't always help the animal rights movement, but I'd hardly lay the blame for our leper status at their feet.  Bottom line is that we're lepers because (to steal a line from dear old Al, the green meat-eater) our truths are inconvenient.  If society accepted that animals are sentient beings deserving of basic rights, then the ensuing changes would be downright unpalatable to most people.  Extending the circle of compassion always involves some sacrifices, and unfortunately, people just ain't willing to give up their juicy hamburgers, cheap leather, and trips to the zoo quite yet.  That's why we're lepers - not because Newkirk called Moore fat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, PETA&#8217;s letter to Moore pissed me off too, as do all their sexist, sizeist, racist and otherwise insensitive stunts.  But people have to put their critical thinking caps on.  Just as ELF doesn&#8217;t represent ALL environmentalists, and Al Sharpton doesn&#8217;t speak for ALL African-Americans, nor are PETA and Newkirk the mouthpieces for the AR movement.  Hell, some of their policies aren&#8217;t even abolitionist, but welfarist!  </p>
<p>Yeah, PETA doesn&#8217;t always help the animal rights movement, but I&#8217;d hardly lay the blame for our leper status at their feet.  Bottom line is that we&#8217;re lepers because (to steal a line from dear old Al, the green meat-eater) our truths are inconvenient.  If society accepted that animals are sentient beings deserving of basic rights, then the ensuing changes would be downright unpalatable to most people.  Extending the circle of compassion always involves some sacrifices, and unfortunately, people just ain&#8217;t willing to give up their juicy hamburgers, cheap leather, and trips to the zoo quite yet.  That&#8217;s why we&#8217;re lepers - not because Newkirk called Moore fat.</p>
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		<title>By: greentangle</title>
		<link>http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74825</link>
		<dc:creator>greentangle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/2007/06/27/peta-sicko/#comment-74825</guid>
		<description>Regardless of any tactic used by any animal group, the biggest reason that AETA wasn't opposed by liberals is that, just like most conservatives, their only interest in animals is eating them. Animal rights groups are lepers because of their values; tactics are irrelevant unless you're actually naive enough to think the world is going to become vegetarian. 

I haven't seen Moore's movie, but he has expressed his contempt for animal-related issues in the past. He's never been an ally and calling him on it seems legitimate to me. The same is true for the so-called environmentalists who won't even mention the effects of diet in their spiels about global warming. 

I share many values with animal ethics groups and with radical ecogroups and while they may have more in common with each other than either does with the mainstream, there are also fundamental and unresolvable differences between them. 
If your values oppose the mainstream's values, power, and profits and you speak out about it, don't expect that mainstream to be your friend, regardless of whether you whisper or shout. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of any tactic used by any animal group, the biggest reason that AETA wasn&#8217;t opposed by liberals is that, just like most conservatives, their only interest in animals is eating them. Animal rights groups are lepers because of their values; tactics are irrelevant unless you&#8217;re actually naive enough to think the world is going to become vegetarian. </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t seen Moore&#8217;s movie, but he has expressed his contempt for animal-related issues in the past. He&#8217;s never been an ally and calling him on it seems legitimate to me. The same is true for the so-called environmentalists who won&#8217;t even mention the effects of diet in their spiels about global warming. </p>
<p>I share many values with animal ethics groups and with radical ecogroups and while they may have more in common with each other than either does with the mainstream, there are also fundamental and unresolvable differences between them.<br />
If your values oppose the mainstream&#8217;s values, power, and profits and you speak out about it, don&#8217;t expect that mainstream to be your friend, regardless of whether you whisper or shout.</p>
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